The Genny First Approach Explained

0:05I think that's working. Um, hello again everyone. Um, I've got another video coming up for you. I hope you've been enjoying the last couple that we did on plans. This one is slightly different. Uh, this isn't so much training material. This is observations over the years that I've been involved in in training on utility location. And it's more designed just to go through a few things that I see, observations, and it's designed really to hopefully get people to question about why we do things a certain way and look if there's a better ways of locating utilities. The first thing I want to point out is that

0:41this video is aimed at CAT and Genny users. So, I have a lot of utility surveying contacts and things and and you're obviously welcome to watch it, but please remember the context of this video. It's it's towards the CAT and Genny training that we do, you know, the typically the one-day courses and things and people using it on the ground, not so much utility um mapping surveyors. Um so for anyone that doesn't know us, just very quickly, we're Sigma Solutions. We're a specialist trained provider in utility location. We was established in 2005. Um and we focus um really just on underground utility location and avoidance. So we're quite specialized in

1:21in that area. That's some of the team. We've expanded since then. But all of us involved in Sigma have been in utility location for years working for manufacturers, utility mapping companies, and we're all really passionate about sharing our knowledge um with people and trying to get people to get the best out of location equipment. We're a CITV ATR. We do EUR courses, level twos, um but it's all geared around utility location training. So, that's a little bit about us. My name is Pete Ashcrooft and I'll be running through this short session with you today. Some of you might find it controversial, but if it gets people

1:59questioning the way we do things, then um it'll be worth it, I think. So, what I want to look at today is the way people are being taught. Um, and we come across this quite a lot on the training. So we we train thousands of delegates in this subject and quite a lot of I'm just going to move this up a little bit. Actually quite a lot of the people that we train have had previous training before and one thing that comes up all the time when we speak to delegates and we ask them how they use a cat quite often they'll tell us they start in power then

2:31they use radio and then journeys at the very end and and quite often it's because that's the way they're taught. They've been they've been they've been taught to do it that way. It's not that they're doing anything wrong in their eyes. That's the way they've always been shown to use the the equipment. And with Sigma, what we teach people is to use the Genny first. So, we start with the Genny. We're still going to do power and radio, but we do it at the end. Um, so I just want to talk to you a little bit about that. Um, and about some of my thoughts on on the way that we're doing

2:59things. So again relate to the CATs not just the the the CAT 4 cable avoidance chill type equipment but this seems to be the order that we do things you know power radio and and Genny and interestingly a a lot of the companies we work with and I think across the industry companies contractors they want to increase Genny usage that's one of the big biggest things um driving the training now is to is when people contact us for training one of their objectives is to get people using the gen more. So, so people across the industry actually want to increase transmitter use. I think everyone

3:36accepts that. Also, many strikes that we see could have been avoided if a transmitter was used. So, the outcome of an investigation quite often is they didn't detect it, but if they'd used a Genny, they would detect it. So, it's clear that increased Genny usage increases how many utilities we find and therefore results in reduced strikes. So industry accepts that the use of a transmitter is more effective. I don't think anybody would argue with that. And manufacturers themselves of the equipment say that a transmitter a Genny is more effective than than individual power and radio boards. And let's look at some examples and some evidence of

4:16where we see that. This is a screenshot taken from a a user guide. And if we look at it, it clearly states power and radio signals may not be present. It's advisable to use a Genny whenever searching for pipes. So, here's one little bit of evidence we've got acknowledging that it's a better way of doing it. Another one from instruction manual. Genny mode detects the locate signals produced by the Genny obviously, but the main point we're looking at here is using a Genny is the most reliable way to detect pipe or cable. So, again, it's more evidence that it's a better way of doing it.

4:54Despite the existence of passive signals, the best signal to locate and trace a line is an active signal which has been deliberately applied. This is from the ABC book from from radio detection. This is a little screenshot from a blog that um Leica did. Up to 60% of buried utilities could be missed when detected in passive mode along radio. I would argue it's probably a bit more, but we'll go with 60. that that's uh that's um in the public domain on the on the Leica blog which you can go and have a read. Um I would say maybe 70 80 um of utilities could be missed when detecting

5:31in passive modes. So again it's clear that we're acknowledging that it's a better way of doing it. And when we look at just this one for example, we're saying here 60% could be missed without transmitter. Yeah, when a lot of people are downloading data from a cart and looking at usage, they're promoting the use of equal use in each modes. For example, like this. So, power, radio, and Genny all equally. But hang on, we're saying that 60% can only be detected with a transmitter. So, should we not see more Genny usage than that? Should it be equal when we download data? Another little example. This is from a

6:13sea scope manual. Again, you can have a read through it, but it's saying the same thing. Look at the blue bit. Most buried metallic services not found in radio should be detected using a generator. Okay. So again, it's another acknowledgement. So as I said before, this is one of the common statements we get on a training course. We were taught to use power and radio first and if we do not find it then we would use the Genny and let's look at that statement in a bit more detail. We were taught to use PAR radio first and if we do not find it then use a

6:51Genny. The statement itself is acknowledging that the Genny's better. We're actually saying well if par radio won't the gen will so why don't we use it first and this is the bit that that I struggle to get my head around a little bit of of why we're doing things. This is what I meant to the beginning about us questioning why we're doing things a certain way. I come across a lot of companies doing competency checks on site. So they have their own internal documents and they go out and visit guys and I'm all for competency checks and on-site assessment. I don't think we do enough

7:25of it. This is just one example of one of the documents and trust me I've got hundreds of these and look again at the order that we're getting people to do it in power first then radio and then and then Genny. So the training is based around this kind of format and the on-site assessments are based around around this format. Let me give you an example of what we're doing. And it might sound like a silly comparison, but to me, this is the same as me entering a pitch black room in the dark and trying to find something. Spending 5 minutes trying to find what

7:59I'm looking for, realizing I can't find it, and then switching the light on. Surely, it would have been more sensible to walk in the room and turn the light on straight away. So what what are we up to so far? I think we've proved that the consensus is clear. The transmitter, the journey is is a far better way of doing it than just using power and radio. So knowing this, why are we still teaching people or why are some companies still teaching people to use the inferior modes first? Does it make sense what we're doing? Would an engineer not choose the best tool for the job to start with?

8:44Power and radio must always be used. I'm not getting away from that. I'm not saying we don't use these modes, but why don't we exhaust the Genny first if we acknowledge it's a better way of doing things and it finds more utilities? And and this next one is key to me. How can we give people confidence in using the Genny? How can we get them to believe that it's a better way of doing it, but still promote using the CAT first? And another reason why we say use it first, if we're honest, corners get cut. People are under time pressure. Especially the guys on the

9:22ground that are doing these excavations and things, they're under time pressure. And if they are going to cut any time out, which mode will sooner on reduce if you like, you know. So if we get them to use the journey first and use that more, I I just genuinely believe it's a much better way of how we do it. So this is another statement that we get when we ask people how do we use it? We do an initial sweep in power and radio and then we use the Genny. So again, let's let's break that down. So you do your initial sweep and you've don't find a signal. What

10:01would you then do? Now most sensor we say, "Well, we we'd use a Genny." Great. So let's look at the other option then. You do the initial sweep and you do find a signal. What would you then do? Well, we'd still use a Genny. So if both outcomes lead to the same result, what are you actually achieving with that initial sweep? If you're still going to use the journey anyway, why not use it first? We then obviously have the new avoidance or all scans modes now coming out on locators. And these modes, for anyone that doesn't know, they're designed to scan simultaneously, as you can see

10:45here, in Genny, power, and radio. Okay, it becomes harder to pinpoint things and narrow things down, but it's simultaneously scanning in all three modes, which on the face of it sounds like a great idea. We're trying to encourage people to use a journey in all three modes. But first of all, let's look at the tech spec. This is specific to the CAT 4. So this is technical specification of the sensitivity of a cat 4. And what I want you to see here is that this is the sensitivity for each of the individual modes. This is what we need to detect it. Let's look at the sensitivity for

11:19avoidance scan. It's the same. So, what this is telling us is this mode on the cart is no better than the individual modes. It's no more sensitive. It's not going to pick up something on this that you wouldn't pick up using the individual modes. Okay? And that's clear there in black and white on the sensit on the technical specification. So let's look at how avoidance scan is described in the user manual. An initial sweep using avoidance mode is recommended followed by detailed scans using the other modes. So it's saying that do your sweep in avoidance but then you still must do the other modes. So what are we

12:03achieving by this initial sweep? If we've got to do it in these anyway and the sensitivity is the same. What is this giving us? I'm not telling people not to use it. I'm not trying to force my beliefs on you. What I want us to do is question things a little bit more of why we're doing things. Does it make sense what we're doing? I argue with people sometime and say, you know, we're trying to promote using the Genny first. We now start saying, well, actually use avoidance first. Is it the right thing to do? I don't know. So what some people say with avoidance

12:39is we'll similar to before we'll use avoidance mode for initial sweep to see if there's anything there and then we'll use the other three modes. But I would argue that what 90% of the people we train u are digging where there is something they know there's something there. A lot of the people we train are deliberately digging on top of utilities to repair or replace. Look at this footpath. Even without the plans, do I need a mode on a car to tell me that there's something there and I should now perform a proper survey? The plans tell me there's something here. The building tells me there's

13:17something here. It's obvious that there are utilities in that footpath. So again, what benefit do I get from doing this initial sweep? Shouldn't we just get the journey out and start locating things properly and then at the end of that do a scan with our passive modes? Summary, have we actually stopped to question why we're doing things a certain way and looking at it? And you know what? You can go through this video and look at it and you might come to the conclusion that I'm wrong and it is the right way and doing it and that's great. That's fine. But at least you'll have taken the

13:54time just to question it and look at it and why you're doing things. This is the one we get all the time. We always did it like that. You know, I'll give you one comparison. Courses that I do, I often ask people where do they put the earth stake in relation to what they're connecting to angle distance. And I get even for people that have been trained, I get loads of different answers. They vary massively. And when I ask them why they put it there, it's not often they can tell me why. And that's just the way we've always done it. That's the way we

14:21were taught to do it. There's no thinking going on about why we're doing things a certain way. And do we take time to question what we think we know? There's so many myths out there about utility location. Are we just carrying on believing things? Because that's the way we've always done it. And as I said, am I right? That's up to you to decide. All I want you to do is just have a think about the things that we've talked through. Have a look at how you're currently doing things. And you might find that there is a better way. And just to finish off on that, if you

14:56are looking at CAT data, you can get pie charts and usage, but are are you actually looking at what order they're doing it in? When you start looking at the raw data, you can see what mold they actually started on. When you're just looking at pie charts, you can just see percentages of each mode, but if you actually drill down into the data, you can see what mode they started with, which might be useful information for you, but it's available there if you want to have a look. And that's why we try and promote Genny and cat, not cat and Genny. And that's why we train it the way we do about using

15:25Genny first. So, hope you found it interesting. Um, I hope it's got you to think about things a little bit. Um, as always, you can contact me for any further info. If you want me to go into anything in more detail, I'm I'm happy to help. And understand that these videos that I'm doing, um, they're obviously free. It's just to try and give something back to the industry. We've we've we've built a a reasonably successful business over 15 years on the support of the industry. And I just think that, you know, if we can give a little bit back, get people talking and debating a bit more about utility

15:57location, then it's got to be a good thing. Thanks everyone. See you later.